Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:06] Speaker B: Welcome to Pugsley Crew Reviews, a podcast where we talk about films, all manner of films, whether they're good, bad or anything in between. We'll talk about room. Give them a fair shot, probably.
We will give them a fair shot.
We've watched some bad films, we watched some good films and you know, half of them I've never seen before, if not more. And so I come into them completely fresh.
And Today we have Kerr 9000 with us again. How are you doing?
[00:00:37] Speaker A: Oh, I'm great. Nice to be here. How are you?
[00:00:40] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm not bad. I'm not bad.
What about you? You've. You've seen a fair whack of these films, but you always give them a fair shot as well.
[00:00:49] Speaker A: Yeah, I've seen a fey whack. Weirdly, I hadn't seen this one.
The only thing I'd seen of this film was I seem to remember back, and I'm talking years ago when I used to go rent VHS films and I'd have been young at the time this came out. I think it had a really cool raised plastic 3D cover.
No, it's cool, but I don't remember the film. I just remember this bumpy plastic sort of big case.
I was quite a novelty back in those days, you know, anything to make your film stand out, really. Plastic holographs. Because it really was. You didn't have podcasts like this and there wasn't that many movie magazines really.
So it was like posters in the window, giant cardboard stands, weird cases. That's how you sold your film. That was how you went rent me, rent me sort of thing.
[00:01:46] Speaker B: Yeah, that is true. I remember.
I remember in the local video rental place, like just lots of stands with cobble cutouts and stuff.
And they always add a section in the back which children weren't allowed in that old films.
Bloody hell.
So the film we talked about today is a film from 1988. It's called Black Roses. I had new heard of it until recently where my kid's like, oh, you check out Black Roses. I was like, okay.
I was like, okay, I will. He's 18. So it wasn't like my 12 year old, my 13 year old even going, you should watch Black Roses.
Which would be a lot more inappropriate.
[00:02:48] Speaker A: I do think by. By modern standards you could show this to a 15 year old.
There's nothing in it. That's too bad.
[00:02:59] Speaker B: No, I from some boobies.
[00:03:05] Speaker A: But I mean that's the weird thing in society, isn't it?
There's almost more fear over people seeing boobies than seeing horrendous gore.
[00:03:15] Speaker B: Yeah, that is very true.
Some reason, I don't know why.
[00:03:21] Speaker A: I mean, it's like you get onto the whole thing now with kids and VPNs and that, and the government's trying to block kids from being online because they might see some boobies.
[00:03:34] Speaker B: And I think that's just an excuse for the government to monitor what you're doing more.
[00:03:39] Speaker A: It's funny because a friend of mine at work said exactly that today, that it's all just like think of the children to backdoor into spying on you.
[00:03:47] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly.
They're all about. Because they were told about. One of the MPs were about VPNs and stuff and they need to be cracked down on. It's like. No, no, they don't.
No.
[00:04:03] Speaker A: I mean, probably they'll crack down on VPNs by keep plugging the. Keep thinking of their children line. But, you know, there's far more to them than people trying to look at porn.
[00:04:14] Speaker B: Exactly. A lot of businesses use them as well.
[00:04:17] Speaker A: Yeah. There's the protection aspect and, you know, you've got to allow people a degree of protection.
[00:04:24] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. You wouldn't go barebacking. Every person you meet would do.
No, you'd wear a rubber Johnny.
Terrible.
So, anywho, Black Roses, it starts off with a band playing some music to a lord of people and they look like kind of demonic and that. And I just thought, oh, it's just masks they wear. But I don't think it is. I think that's meant to be how they look.
[00:04:59] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:05:01] Speaker B: Going from the rest of the film.
But yeah, it starts off with a gig.
It seems to go and turn everyone into demon things briefly. And then that's not really mentioned again.
[00:05:23] Speaker A: Apparently that was filmed after the rest of the film was done.
[00:05:27] Speaker B: All right.
[00:05:28] Speaker A: So I. I think probably somebody had watched it and gone. There's no umph. It doesn't start with any like.
So we've got to do something really good in the first few minutes.
But, yeah, it doesn't really help because like you said, it doesn't really lead anywhere.
It puts it up with some oomph that's then just not carried through.
[00:05:57] Speaker B: Yeah.
And then after this concert, that doesn't lead anywhere. It goes to this small town in America that seems to be shit.
And it shows some kids debating with. Elect a tutor, teacher, lecturer, whatever you want to call them about. Well, I say kids, they look about 80.
[00:06:30] Speaker A: And apparent. Apparently one of them was 28. So they are it's that typical old thing that happened even in the old 50s horrors like the Blob and that. It's adults going, yo, look at us, we're kids, we're down with it. And you're like, no, you're not.
I mean, I understand not getting kids because you can't show kids the gore. And you. Obviously there's more working regulations, but come on, get 19 year olds, not midlife crisis brigade.
[00:07:03] Speaker B: Exactly, exactly.
So once they debate in school, I don't know, nothing really interesting happens. They just discuss like, oh, they're trying to, you know, ban us from going to these gigs for this band, the Black Roses, that are coming here for the first ever gig. But it's not their first ever gig, which is mentioned later in the film. And he goes, well, there was one time, but that didn't go very well.
So there you go.
And.
[00:07:41] Speaker A: Yeah, but the whole thing of the film is like basically saying that parents are terrified of the stuff the kids are into and they're scared it will turn them into monsters. And then the play is that. That literally is the truth in this one case.
[00:07:56] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:07:59] Speaker A: It'S a great idea, I think.
I just.
I don't think it fully plays through on it.
[00:08:08] Speaker B: No.
I wonder if there's a follow up film to this.
[00:08:18] Speaker A: I think it'd be ripe for a remake because like I said, the central idea is a really good idea that just seems to have been kind of squandered.
[00:08:29] Speaker B: Yeah, I get you.
[00:08:30] Speaker A: You take this same central idea and give it some money. And I'd like to see somebody like the people that made Terrifier give this a whack.
[00:08:42] Speaker B: All right?
[00:08:43] Speaker A: Because I think, you know, up the gore, up the action, there's big swathes in this film of very little happening.
You've got your debates with your lecturer, kids watching a bit of music, a guy trying to get weird. Girl, girl likes lecturer. You know, it's all very.
Yeah, it's little pieces tacked together to make a film with very little cohesive flow.
It feels very stoppy starty.
[00:09:21] Speaker B: And yeah, I get what you're saying.
One thing.
[00:09:27] Speaker A: Needed more death.
[00:09:28] Speaker B: They did need more death. One thing I will say though is, is I understand why they were showing the music stuff with kids watching. I think it was to show like the progression of the, the, the gigs are having on the kids in the fact that everyone they go to the kids would get worse behavioral wise and things.
It starts off and the kids are like, okay. Like the one kid is like, it was really annoying. There Was a scene with the one kid and some girl whose name I think was like Tina and Jeff or something, I don't know.
And I can't remember the names. I. I sometimes write them down, but I forgot. And they just talking, and he's like, oh, you know, you could go up with me instead of pining over the teacher and what else? And he's like, walking down the street with her. But instead of just walking down the street, he's like, jumping, I'm claiming on poles. And he's really irritating me. I was like, I can't car hit him because he's back and forth, walking on the road, then walking on the P. And then climbing up steps, then swinging from Paul. And then Constantine is like, what the.
No one would be acting like that.
Maybe if they're like, five.
And then they were gonna, like, do something with paint, and then the paint caught on fire, and I was like, why is the paint catched on fire.
[00:10:54] Speaker A: Now? There's some weird stuff in this.
[00:10:58] Speaker B: Yeah.
I like the first gig, though. Not the. The first. The first one in the little town where they do this, like, oh, this is a song to my home. And he's singing along, and the. The. The adults, they are like, oh, yeah, okay. And then they all leave. And as soon as they leave, lights go off, his core comes off, and he's wearing this, like, leather fucking thing with his chest out. And it's like, yeah, let's fucking get into it.
Another thing I thought was strange, right, is there's a point where the teacher goes and speaks to Damien, the singer of the Black Roses.
And for one, he got different hair. So I was like, is he wearing a wig? And then later on in the film, you find out he must be wearing a wig because he takes it off and he's bald underneath it.
But what I found strange was, is like they were having a conversation, but it genuinely looked like they were both drinking a glass of milk. Each.
[00:12:06] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:12:07] Speaker B: I was like, why are they drinking milk?
Hardcore rocker drinking milk.
[00:12:24] Speaker A: I mean, I just think I'd have done this film totally different. And that sounds.
You know, I've never made a film, so, you know, this film's better than anything I've ever made. But you've got the progression, the kids getting worse.
But I can't help but think I'd have took it down the lines of a bit like a vampire film, right? I think I'd have. I'd have had them.
They all see the first gig, and I'd have, like, put contacts in or something that their eyes had changed, or I'd put little caps on some of their teeth or something. You know what I mean? I'd, like, have a slow progression into the gigs, altering them mentally and physically.
[00:13:12] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:13:13] Speaker A: And I'd have perhaps had one of them beat somebody quite bloody or something, and then I'd have had a death. And a lot of this. Kept a lot of it right till the end.
[00:13:28] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, it did start with the progression with. After the first gig, the one kid got into a fight with someone who took a record off him and, like, picked him up and threw him.
[00:13:39] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:13:41] Speaker B: Which was fucking hilarious.
And then obviously, he started getting weird with the, like. Who. Speaker demon, which was like a weird spider creature thing.
[00:13:52] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:13:52] Speaker B: And it's like, what the fuck? Because the record went all weird and lumpy, bumpy. I did like that some weird speaker demon came out of the speaker and started norming on one guy's father.
[00:14:07] Speaker A: Wasn't that guy's father somebody who's in the Sopranos now?
I say now, but, you know, was in the Sopranos.
[00:14:17] Speaker B: Does look like someone from her. I've never watched the Sopranos, so I should.
[00:14:20] Speaker A: I've only. I've only seen bits of it, but I'm pretty sure there's a guy called Salvatore, and I think it's him.
And I think the guy's had, like, quite a long career, which, you know, you wouldn't think anybody in this would have had a long career, but.
[00:14:37] Speaker B: No.
[00:14:39] Speaker A: Maybe somebody can check that out and let us know if anyone listens to this and wants to fill in the blanks.
[00:14:47] Speaker B: But. Yeah, another thing with the progression and stuff, Zach, thinking about it, is they start getting wilder. The kids do. And then it starts getting to the murders. Like, one of them runs his mother over and kills her. Another one shoots his father. Another one's father, which I think is the same father as.
Same kid's father who run over his mother.
That makes sense. I think it was his father got it by the speaker. Then there was the woman, the girl who's like, oh, why don't we play strip?
Oh, yeah, whatever it's called. And that's like, okay. And she strips off and he, like, has a heart attack and dies. Because I don't know why.
[00:15:36] Speaker A: I guess he'd just not seen titties like that for a long time. And it was. It was too much for him to take.
There's worse ways to go. I'd rather go death by titty than death by speaker monster.
[00:15:49] Speaker B: Yeah. Same year. Same year.
[00:15:53] Speaker A: I will Say it made me think none of their music was memorable to me in the slightest.
I couldn't quote your line of it. I couldn't hum a tune to.
Made me think.
You've seen the horror movie Critters, aren't you?
[00:16:07] Speaker B: Yeah. Not for a long time, though.
[00:16:10] Speaker A: And the bounty hunter face morphs to look like a famous musician in their world and they like play his song off and on through the film. He's. He's like long blonde hair. He's like, power of the night. Feel my glory.
Power of the night. And I thought that's what this needed. It needed better music so that you actually.
Well, I. Yeah, I can see what the kids are getting into.
[00:16:38] Speaker B: I didn't find the music too bad, considering it's just not memorable.
I think the. The music of the band was better than the music of just that would be playing during scenes because it was some awfully awful, cheesy music.
And I was like, what the fuck is this shit?
[00:16:59] Speaker A: Probably whatever.
Oh, what you call it? Public domain free music they could find.
[00:17:05] Speaker B: Yeah, more than likely.
I was like. In the second showing of the. The second gig, something did like. I can't remember walks. I just wrote, what the fuck is happening to the kids in the second show? So something must have been happening there. I just don't know what. I can't remember. I only watched the other day.
I think Julie was the name of the girl. Not Tina. I didn't know the names of them.
[00:17:32] Speaker A: I think. I think one of them might be Tina, though.
[00:17:35] Speaker B: Might be.
[00:17:36] Speaker A: I think you're like mixing two there.
Because I know it does say most of the names, but I don't think to win the lottery I could tell you the name of any character in it, really.
[00:17:49] Speaker B: Yeah. The only reason why I've got remember Julie is because I was like, what the fuck is Julie now? Because at one point she's like. Takes a kit off the top off and she's like, oh, come on, teacher, do me. And he's like, no. And then she turns into this weird fucking demon thing and then he kills her. And then she's at the show later.
[00:18:14] Speaker A: Yeah. I don't know whether, you know, that was supposed to say they were unkillable or whether that was a goof or it was filmed out of order or. It did make me wonder.
[00:18:23] Speaker B: My only thought is, is it wasn't really her and that was the demon in the first place. But that still doesn't make sense.
[00:18:32] Speaker A: Well, yeah, I get what you mean. It could be a demons took her form to try and get him.
[00:18:39] Speaker B: Yeah, because, like, there's a scene where, what, one of the kids, like, he's lying in bed and then the naked woman just appears and it's like, why?
Like, how? And then all of a sudden, like, it shows him the next morning get up before he shoots his father, and. And she's lying next to him, and when he gets up and, like, goes past the camera, she disappears.
[00:19:06] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:19:09] Speaker B: So I was like. Was that just, like, imaginary or what?
[00:19:18] Speaker A: It's one of those films that if it has any rules, it doesn't explain them.
[00:19:23] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:19:24] Speaker A: I mean, a lot of films go the, like, gremlins route, where there's rules for the monsters and for what's happening. And it'll go, these are the rules. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And then you'll see them broke or whatever is the film. This just never explains anything.
[00:19:40] Speaker B: No.
One thing I. I really liked, though, when Julie became the weird demon thing, was when the teacher was fighting her off, he shoved a tennis ball in her mouth.
[00:19:53] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:19:56] Speaker B: What?
What the.
[00:19:57] Speaker A: I know that. St. Makini.
I think it was before she turned into a monster. He hit her, didn't he?
She kept trying to, like, push up against him and it did a noise.
[00:20:09] Speaker B: Yeah, he slapped her. Yeah, he slapped her because she was, like, trying to get her on with him. Like, she was very inappropriate.
And he even said to her, I'm like a father figure. And she's like, no, I need you inside me.
I don't know if she says those words, but, you know, it's on those.
[00:20:29] Speaker A: Lines that's implied at least.
[00:20:36] Speaker B: Yeah, he's like, hitting her with a tennis racket. He sticks a tennis ball in her mouth.
Just crazy.
One of my favorite parts of this film, right, is the very final show where Damien is, like.
I mean, more demonic.
The teacher walks in.
No one pays him any heed, no mind at all.
He chucks loads of petrol over the stage. They still don't notice for a while. Eventually they do notice, and he starts fighting with other band members who have turned into demons.
And then they grab him and bring him to Damien. The team is like, you know what? You're good. You're very good. I was, like, thinking, what's he good about?
What's he done to warrant be told, yeah, you're really good. Like, was he dead? He chucked some petrol on the stage.
[00:21:31] Speaker A: I'm just. I think that basically they were trying to tempt him with a girl and he's saying, you're good, as in you've resisted My temptations.
[00:21:41] Speaker B: That would make sense. But.
[00:21:44] Speaker A: But again, you know, if you want it to be that, then the film should have done a better job of saying that, you know, he could have had a monologue. He could have gone, you could have had it all. I offered you on a plate, blah, blah, blah. You know, you're too good.
You've resisted the devil's temptations. You know, you.
The only good monologue this film really has is, is he the mayor or whatever? When it's the town speech and they all want to stop the kids going to see the banding. Oh, come on. We had Elvis and he jiggled his hips and we had the Beatles and I bet your par said they were Satan and you know, the kids just want to have some fun, blah blah.
And I thought that speech was probably wasted on this film.
[00:22:38] Speaker B: Yeah, I get you.
I. I remembered the kids going weird in the second, second show they turned in like weird puppets as if they've had like all the fluids and that sucked out of them like a lot of the kids did. And they were just there gigging, going, that's what happened. Very weird.
But when it comes to the final fight, right, Damien turns full on demon and gets kicked in the nuts by the teacher.
And the teacher runs out, sets the place on fire. Make sure he grabs Julie, none of the other kids, and then leaves.
And then all of a sudden all the kids seem to snap out of it and start freaking out and leave as well.
And what I really liked about this bit is what I really thought was cool, stage was on fire.
You think, oh, it's gonna kill the demons. What do they do?
They carry on playing music.
[00:23:45] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:23:46] Speaker B: Rocking out while the stage is on fire.
There's no given. They're like, yeah, fire.
[00:23:53] Speaker A: Well, it makes sense, doesn't it? If the spawn of hell, then, you know, why would fire bother him? Yeah, Heavy metal.
[00:24:05] Speaker B: Which is a completely different film.
Yeah, the end, the very end of the film. And it shows them on.
It shows the Black Roses on TV in that they're doing the concerts in New York and various other places. So clearly they didn't die and they just carried on with doing stuff.
So.
[00:24:36] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, that would have like set it up for a sequel, wouldn't it? If they wanted.
[00:24:41] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:24:41] Speaker A: But I'd imagine it didn't make enough.
I mean, I always try and look up two things with films. Well, I suppose three films, three things.
One is how much budget was spent on them, two is how much they made and three is how long it they took to film.
[00:25:02] Speaker B: Right.
[00:25:03] Speaker A: I couldn't find any information on how much was spent on this and I couldn't find any information how much it took, I would hazard. I mean, it didn't have a cinema release.
It was straight to. No, it was straight to video. Apparently it was originally intended for a cinema release but didn't get one.
But I couldn't see it doing too bad on video. Not the fact it had the raised plastic case and. Because like I said back then, gimmicks were everything.
But it took eight weeks to shoot.
[00:25:42] Speaker B: Which I think surprisingly more than I expected.
Yeah.
[00:25:46] Speaker A: I was gonna say, I think it's quite a decent length of time for a film like this back then.
[00:25:50] Speaker B: It looks pretty low budget, though.
[00:25:53] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:25:55] Speaker B: Not that that's got anything to do with the. I'm saying I can't see there have been like millions put into it because it seems fairly low budget.
[00:26:05] Speaker A: I mean, maybe it was intended for cinema release, but when they sat and watched it, they went, nah, you know, it's not going to reflect good on us to put this in a cinema. It doesn't look polished enough.
Just straight to video.
I was gonna say, I don't think it had. Warrant a cinema release, even back when it came out.
[00:26:26] Speaker B: No.
Would you go watching cinema now if it came to cinema?
[00:26:32] Speaker A: Probably not. It'd have to be a quiet cinema time.
[00:26:43] Speaker B: Yeah. So I think we gonna wrap up soon with this. Is there anything you'd like to add about this film? Would you want. Would you recommend people watch it? What would you rate it? That kind of thing.
[00:26:56] Speaker A: It's not the worst thing I've watched. I do think that there's some decent effects in it, but there's some ropey stuff as well. I'd probably give it a 6 out of 10.
I think the guiltiest thing about it is that it just meanders on a bit. It doesn't feel like the time it spends on screen is well used.
[00:27:19] Speaker B: Yeah, I get you.
Yeah. I think I'd agree with.
With the 6 out of 10 as well. Maybe 6.5 because, you know, I like boobs.
Unless that's what the six was for.
But no, in all seriousness, like, I did mind the music, whereas you seem to dislike it.
I thought some of the.
Some of the things in there were funny. I don't think it was meant to be funny, but it was. So. Yeah, I just think it was all right.
Better than an average film, just about, but not a lot.
[00:28:01] Speaker A: The line that made me laugh the most in it, and I'll probably get it wrong. And I just. It made me laugh because they would never have this in a film today.
And it's the dad.
[00:28:11] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[00:28:13] Speaker A: When he says about his son having an earring and he says something on the lines of only two types of men wear earrings. Pirates or. And I don't see no ship in our yard boy, or something like that, I was like, oh, that's cringe by nowadays standards.
[00:28:28] Speaker B: Yeah, it is, very much so.
I'm surprised they.
Well, I'm not surprised at the time, actually.
[00:28:38] Speaker A: No, I think it's the prime time for stuff like that. But although I've got a thing where.
And this goes to the like, Christmas song fairy tale in New York. And people always want that banning because it's got that word in it.
I don't think there's a problem with having that word when the person saying it is portrayed as an asshole.
[00:29:03] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:29:04] Speaker A: Because bad people say bad things. And I think if everybody walked around going, oh, jolly g. Gosh, I don't like you. You root into an awful per. It's a bit. You know.
[00:29:16] Speaker B: Yeah, I. I think with this film, he does use, like, what would be considered a slur nowadays.
But the. He is portrayed as an asshole on top of being portrayed as an art. As an asshole. He does have his comeuppance by being eaten by a speaker spider demon, which.
[00:29:35] Speaker A: I'd argue makes it okay. Fair game sort of thing.
[00:29:40] Speaker B: Yeah. I think if you're gonna include things like that, the. The best way to go about it is the person having the comeuppance. If someone is like that and they just get on with their life. Happy Hilary. And it's kind of showing that, yeah, being a dick is fine. Which you don't really want. Like.
[00:29:58] Speaker A: Nah.
[00:29:59] Speaker B: But, you know, what do I know? I'm not. I'm not a expert.
[00:30:05] Speaker A: I was gonna say I can't speak direct to it because I'm not gag.
[00:30:10] Speaker B: No.
[00:30:10] Speaker A: There's people in my life that are.
[00:30:13] Speaker B: Yeah, same here.
[00:30:15] Speaker A: Individually. I think it's up to everybody in that the word might hurt somebody that is. And somebody else that is might not care or might find it funny or. So it's a. Offenses are very.
What will offend one won't offend somebody. You never know.
[00:30:35] Speaker B: Yeah, I get you.
[00:30:40] Speaker A: But it did make me laugh because I just.
It came out of nowhere and I.
[00:30:45] Speaker B: Thought, yeah, that's not expecting it.
[00:30:47] Speaker A: That would not be in today's version of this.
[00:30:51] Speaker B: See, the thing is, I don't know, because it's not like the kid was saying it and just being happy. Larry. It was like dickhead father who was saying it and then died. So they may keep her in there just because the guy who's being a dick is treated like a dick.
Yeah. Gets treated like a dick by being stuck in something's mouth called a spider demon speaker thing.
Anyway, I think that is going to be us.
I would like to thank you again for taking part. It's always a pleasure.
[00:31:24] Speaker A: Oh, thanks for having me. Thanks for having me.
[00:31:26] Speaker B: No worries at all.
Yeah, no worries at all, man. Okay. And thank you for everyone who's listened. It is a pleasure, as always. Have a good one. Bye. Bye.
[00:31:36] Speaker A: Bye.
